What abour nebulising Mg Chloride oil (or mix it oneself with Mg Cl Flakes and distilled water) from a clean source, for eg Ancient Minerals Brand. I have a 5ml nebuliser and wondering whether to do it to raise Mg levels faster than taking pills. And also if I should dilute it with sterile saline say 50/50 in the nebuliser. Of course may have to do repeated tests to not overdo it. Any thoughts?
This meta-analysis from 2007 links to several studies. I suspect that if you are chronically deficient the safe dose (total area under the curve) may be too low to correct this efficiently:
Intravenous and nebulised magnesium sulphate for acute asthma: systematic review and metaāanalysis
I have chronic low magnesium. I was taking Mag citrate because I thought it was easier on my system. NO so. It causes loose stools which pushes out electrolytes, causing more mag deficiency. When I started taking Mag Bisglycinate my Tachycardia got 95% better.
It helped many other issues as well. There is a dance between taking enough calcium to keep nails from breaking (which I extrapolate to bones from breaking). With me Calcium wastes magnesium, so I need to take a bunch of Mag a couple of hours after Calcium. If it's taken too soon the magnesium wastes calcium. So, a bit of a tightrope. But columns like this help immensely. Thank you!
According to Dr. David Perlmutter, a neurologist and fellow of the American College of Nutrition, "magnesium is a critical player in the activation of nerve channels that are involved in synaptic plasticity."Ā
Magnesium threonate, which most effectively permeates the blood-brain-barrier, is likely your best choice here.
The specific brain benefits of magnesium threonate were demonstrated in a 2010 studyĀ published in the journal Neuron, which found this form of magnesium enhanced "learning abilities, working memory, and short- and long-term memory in rats."
Excellent article- as always! Iām giving my son magnesium threonate for his depression (was also mentioned by Midwestern Doctor) and my friend who is trying to get off of BP medicine, what type of magnesium is best for him? Magnaspartate seems to only be available in the UK.. And I found this post on X describing different types- does it look accurate to you?
I take oolong tea several times a week but didn't know about this, thanks!
Effect of a Combination of Magnesium, B Vitamins, Rhodiola, and Green Tea (L-Theanine) on Chronically Stressed Healthy Individuals-A Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Study
The chart is very simplistic. Threonate is expensive and is not the only mag to help mood( they all can). Any can cause GI upset if too much is taken at once. Citrate can cause issues with copper balance. My favourite for price and effectiveness is mag chloride. I add it to my daily water and sip all day
Anything with aspartate might be bad if excitotoxicity in the brain is a problem.
Personally, in my own health experience, I really need a topical source because it helps my symptoms more than any of the supplement types, even the chelates. I did have to switch from Epsom salt, Mg sulfate, to Mg chloride because of sulfate sensitivity from gene differences. Or I was just reading about Magnesium oratate as a well-absorbed form because it can go through membranes instead of needing an ion channel.
Have a look for Dr. Carolyn Dean. She wrote a superb book - The Miracle of Magnesium 2 decades ago. It talks about different magnesium types but citrate and glycinate are the most easily absorbed. She has her own website and there are youtube interviews with her.
I currently take Mg Glycinate nightly. Extremely satisfied with the results both via labs and sleep/gastrointestinal. I have purchased Mg Threonate to try for the neurological benefit. Might taking both (AM/PM to separate them) not be recommended? Thank you so very much for this extremely thorough Substack. Looking forward to Part 2.
You can combine if there is a case for each type for their individual benefit, but take care not to overdose.
Taking with zinc is recommended, and with food, and splitting doses throughout the day for maximum passive and active absorption.
That's the long version, the short version is to try to mirror how we get our magnesium from diet: spread out through the day and all mixed up with other stuff!
My serum mag is always perfect, but I was very ill. Eventually I learned about the RBC mag test.
I was CRAZY low.
After years of supplementation and attention to diet (leafy greens are mostly not a good source of mag, as they tend to contain a lot of calcium) I am still low... but not THAT low.
What has changed? I've stopped needing pills for sleep. I am no longer "depressed". I no longer have chronic high cortisol symptoms.
I still have chronic fatigue and muscle pain, some hearing loss, occasional bouts of heart palps (my heart is "fine"), high cholesterol.
Mag supplements aren't perfect but they're what we have. I take a LOT and am now going to take some more
Go for topical Magnesium chloride baths or Epsom salt instead of taking crazy amounts of something that doesn't seem to be absorbed well. Some people either genetically or due to gut issues don't absorb dietary magnesium well but it is readily absorbed through skin pores and around the finger and toe nails. I take a bath about every 4-5 days for best symptom control. Too often can lead to diarrhea from excess magnesium. A 20 minute bath with 1-2 cups of Mg salt is what I do.
Yes. I've gotten lazy on topical. I can't use epsom salts (It is like 42 cups of coffee, for some reason), so use mag flakes.
I recently started learning more about about my specific genetic make up. I am a poor metabolizer of CYP2D6. I do'nt know if that's at play here, too. I have some other cyp450 variation but haven't examined them
*like 42 cups of coffee is a very clear visual -> don't use MgS... ;-) It made my heart race with tachycardia if I stayed in the bath too long - symptom of sulfur excess rather than Mg - that would be bradycardia, a slower heart rate.
Microwave radiation stimulates voltage-gated calcium channels, and it's been hypothesized that magnesium's ability to act a a calcium channel blocker could be helpful for people who are EMR sensitive
Personal anecdote. My husband has been on a PPI for many years for very bad GERD. This was years ago. He then had small runs of premature ventricular tachycardia (PVCs) and the cardiologist couldn't figure out why. I suggested he was magnesium deficient but the cardiologist dismissed that suggestion. Nonetheless, hubby listened to his pharmacist wife, took magnesium and the PVCs resolved after about 4 months.
Yes, I was taking Omeprazole for many years not realising the serious side effects from them. I experienced frequent episodes of arrhythmia and muscle weakness which puzzled the doctors but I read that the PPI could be the cause. Stopping the PPI was a nightmare for me and it was very difficult to wean myself off of them, it took a long time. They seem an easy answer to a problem but they can cause many more serious problems the longer you take them.
Oh that NDMA story with ranitidine is a real rabbit hole. It is because the FDA does not do much of the testing itself anymore and relies on manufacturers to supply the data, especially for generic manufacturers. It was a PRIVATE company who discovered the NDMA in ranitidine.
Ps to my msg re nebuling Mg. I want to thank DC for his work - he is amazing and generous.
What abour nebulising Mg Chloride oil (or mix it oneself with Mg Cl Flakes and distilled water) from a clean source, for eg Ancient Minerals Brand. I have a 5ml nebuliser and wondering whether to do it to raise Mg levels faster than taking pills. And also if I should dilute it with sterile saline say 50/50 in the nebuliser. Of course may have to do repeated tests to not overdo it. Any thoughts?
This meta-analysis from 2007 links to several studies. I suspect that if you are chronically deficient the safe dose (total area under the curve) may be too low to correct this efficiently:
Intravenous and nebulised magnesium sulphate for acute asthma: systematic review and metaāanalysis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2658351/
Well done!
I have chronic low magnesium. I was taking Mag citrate because I thought it was easier on my system. NO so. It causes loose stools which pushes out electrolytes, causing more mag deficiency. When I started taking Mag Bisglycinate my Tachycardia got 95% better.
It helped many other issues as well. There is a dance between taking enough calcium to keep nails from breaking (which I extrapolate to bones from breaking). With me Calcium wastes magnesium, so I need to take a bunch of Mag a couple of hours after Calcium. If it's taken too soon the magnesium wastes calcium. So, a bit of a tightrope. But columns like this help immensely. Thank you!
Great you've found a balance that works for you! I've changed to glycinate too and not looked back. More in part 4.
Thank you for your research. We need a light in the dark!
Unfortunately this is paywalled but it puts Mg up there with D and IVM for therapeutic potential at low cost, which doesn't make anyone much money!
I will have a read around for part 2.
Magnesium deficiency heightens lipopolysaccharide-induced inflammation and enhances monocyte adhesion in human umbilical vein endothelial cells
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328789914_Magnesium_deficiency_heightens_lipopolysaccharide-induced_inflammation_and_enhances_monocyte_adhesion_in_human_umbilical_vein_endothelial_cells
Very nice. I like your rating system: "Reading time:
short story - novelette - novella Ā¹- novel - PhD thesis - War and Peace - U.S. Tax Code"
I realized that my unfinished pomegranate paper was more of a PhD Thesis than a typical journal article.
"To have optimal magnesium, needs adequate protein and phospholipids too" - my take on magnesium and diet (or baths). https://open.substack.com/pub/denutrients/p/to-have-optimal-magnesium-needs-protein-and-phospholipids-too?r=os7nw&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
And I just cross-posted this article that discusses magnesium orotate. https://open.substack.com/pub/drrowen/p/magnesium-a-most-important-mineral?r=os7nw&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Thank you Jennifer, I will check that out. It's a huge subject and the hard part is what to focus on.
I have been taking Mg L-Threonate for some years:
According to Dr. David Perlmutter, a neurologist and fellow of the American College of Nutrition, "magnesium is a critical player in the activation of nerve channels that are involved in synaptic plasticity."Ā
https://drperlmutter.com/magnesium-threonate-powers-brain/
Magnesium threonate, which most effectively permeates the blood-brain-barrier, is likely your best choice here.
The specific brain benefits of magnesium threonate were demonstrated in a 2010 studyĀ published in the journal Neuron, which found this form of magnesium enhanced "learning abilities, working memory, and short- and long-term memory in rats."
https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(09)01044-7
Thanks. I've been on it for 8 months and it's one of the best but its also expensive.
I've been bouncing between it and mag bisglycinate for about a year because of the expense.
Yes, I might take it again but so expensive indeed!
TYVM Carp for all you do for us.
Excellent deep dive door less carp 953!! Thank you š
Excellent article- as always! Iām giving my son magnesium threonate for his depression (was also mentioned by Midwestern Doctor) and my friend who is trying to get off of BP medicine, what type of magnesium is best for him? Magnaspartate seems to only be available in the UK.. And I found this post on X describing different types- does it look accurate to you?
https://twitter.com/kacdnp91/status/1756854787772203350
L-Theanine is excellent for depression & natural.
I take oolong tea several times a week but didn't know about this, thanks!
Effect of a Combination of Magnesium, B Vitamins, Rhodiola, and Green Tea (L-Theanine) on Chronically Stressed Healthy Individuals-A Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35565828/
The chart is very simplistic. Threonate is expensive and is not the only mag to help mood( they all can). Any can cause GI upset if too much is taken at once. Citrate can cause issues with copper balance. My favourite for price and effectiveness is mag chloride. I add it to my daily water and sip all day
Tune in for part 2. I was going to include discussion but with all the studies to cite it would double the Substack length.
Most people here love to read. ;) š¤
And a thought about length of substacks: a few of us could combine stacks and produce a very unique book.
Just sayin'.
Thank you Christie :-) Now there's the seed of a plan š¤
Anything with aspartate might be bad if excitotoxicity in the brain is a problem.
Personally, in my own health experience, I really need a topical source because it helps my symptoms more than any of the supplement types, even the chelates. I did have to switch from Epsom salt, Mg sulfate, to Mg chloride because of sulfate sensitivity from gene differences. Or I was just reading about Magnesium oratate as a well-absorbed form because it can go through membranes instead of needing an ion channel.
Have a look for Dr. Carolyn Dean. She wrote a superb book - The Miracle of Magnesium 2 decades ago. It talks about different magnesium types but citrate and glycinate are the most easily absorbed. She has her own website and there are youtube interviews with her.
I've recently changed to glycinate powder as for me it's five times cheaper than threonate. Tune in for part 2!
I currently take Mg Glycinate nightly. Extremely satisfied with the results both via labs and sleep/gastrointestinal. I have purchased Mg Threonate to try for the neurological benefit. Might taking both (AM/PM to separate them) not be recommended? Thank you so very much for this extremely thorough Substack. Looking forward to Part 2.
You can combine if there is a case for each type for their individual benefit, but take care not to overdose.
Taking with zinc is recommended, and with food, and splitting doses throughout the day for maximum passive and active absorption.
That's the long version, the short version is to try to mirror how we get our magnesium from diet: spread out through the day and all mixed up with other stuff!
***
Can I take more than one form of magnesium?
https://casadesante.com/en-eu/blogs/magnesium/can-i-take-more-than-one-form-of-magnesium
Thank you so very much for your kind reply and additional resource!
My serum mag is always perfect, but I was very ill. Eventually I learned about the RBC mag test.
I was CRAZY low.
After years of supplementation and attention to diet (leafy greens are mostly not a good source of mag, as they tend to contain a lot of calcium) I am still low... but not THAT low.
What has changed? I've stopped needing pills for sleep. I am no longer "depressed". I no longer have chronic high cortisol symptoms.
I still have chronic fatigue and muscle pain, some hearing loss, occasional bouts of heart palps (my heart is "fine"), high cholesterol.
Mag supplements aren't perfect but they're what we have. I take a LOT and am now going to take some more
As Jennifer says see if probiotics such as Kefir work for you, if you haven't tried it yet (but introduce gradually!)
It's the one of the reasons this Substack follows discussion on probiotics, due to symbiosis with Mg.
That is one aspect I hadn't considered at all. Thank you. There is always more to learn
Go for topical Magnesium chloride baths or Epsom salt instead of taking crazy amounts of something that doesn't seem to be absorbed well. Some people either genetically or due to gut issues don't absorb dietary magnesium well but it is readily absorbed through skin pores and around the finger and toe nails. I take a bath about every 4-5 days for best symptom control. Too often can lead to diarrhea from excess magnesium. A 20 minute bath with 1-2 cups of Mg salt is what I do.
Yes. I've gotten lazy on topical. I can't use epsom salts (It is like 42 cups of coffee, for some reason), so use mag flakes.
I recently started learning more about about my specific genetic make up. I am a poor metabolizer of CYP2D6. I do'nt know if that's at play here, too. I have some other cyp450 variation but haven't examined them
At a glance there are a lot of research articles about how that may decrease drug clearance and increase adverse reactions to those types of drugs which includes antipsychotics and antidepressants https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2773579
*like 42 cups of coffee is a very clear visual -> don't use MgS... ;-) It made my heart race with tachycardia if I stayed in the bath too long - symptom of sulfur excess rather than Mg - that would be bradycardia, a slower heart rate.
Microwave radiation stimulates voltage-gated calcium channels, and it's been hypothesized that magnesium's ability to act a a calcium channel blocker could be helpful for people who are EMR sensitive
Personal anecdote. My husband has been on a PPI for many years for very bad GERD. This was years ago. He then had small runs of premature ventricular tachycardia (PVCs) and the cardiologist couldn't figure out why. I suggested he was magnesium deficient but the cardiologist dismissed that suggestion. Nonetheless, hubby listened to his pharmacist wife, took magnesium and the PVCs resolved after about 4 months.
He is lucky. Some people even the Mg supplements don't help enough and stopping the PPI was needed.
Yes, I was taking Omeprazole for many years not realising the serious side effects from them. I experienced frequent episodes of arrhythmia and muscle weakness which puzzled the doctors but I read that the PPI could be the cause. Stopping the PPI was a nightmare for me and it was very difficult to wean myself off of them, it took a long time. They seem an easy answer to a problem but they can cause many more serious problems the longer you take them.
Awesome washed up pharmacist! Those PPI s cause muscle weakness with athletes and weightlifters. Iām glad your husband is better !
Oh that NDMA story with ranitidine is a real rabbit hole. It is because the FDA does not do much of the testing itself anymore and relies on manufacturers to supply the data, especially for generic manufacturers. It was a PRIVATE company who discovered the NDMA in ranitidine.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/a-tiny-pharmacy-is-identifying-big-problems-with-common-drugs-including-zantac/2019/11/08/6dd009ca-eb76-11e9-9c6d-436a0df4f31d_story.html
Donāt count on any company to make it without crappy chemicals.